Freedom...oh what a word...

Just as the issues which arise in a "believers walk of grace...the questions arise...what am I permitted to do? what aM I free to do?


As an American, in our country we have many issues based upon our freedom...

We have freedom of religion...and that freedom allows us to hurt ourselves...and each other with that freedom....

by imposing views on others...I am exercising MY freedom,
while infringing upon Their freedom...all at the same time...

We are left only to find a happy medium...some sort of balance....
in our walk of grace...as a Christian..and as an American....


There is a truth though...and it is found in God...Jehovah...Yahweh...His Son..Jesus the Messiah...and the Holy Spirit..the ruach..wind of God...the Spirit of God...

the only absoloutes are Him...
He has founded the earth upon Laws...Absoloutes ...
He has given Commands...His Rules..His Laws...
He told Adam and Eve if they sinned...they would die..

And Mankind, earth, humanity has been spiritually dead...dying...fallen...since..that day...

And He gave a Law..an Absoloute..
The punishmnt for Sin was death...
That day when Adam and Eve sinned, God Himself, performed the first sacrifice for sin...slaughtering two animals? or one..lol..I got to go look that up..

He gave His Law to MOses...
and taught the Israelites..His Standards, His truths, His Absoloutes...

and man couldn't live up to them...

Yet, He promised, a New Covenant..a New Way...

by killing Himself...as the sacrifice...
to Offer His blood...which was born as human flesh...
because His law is that the punsihment for sin is death..

so He died...

and there are truths... there are absoloutes...

He rose...His Spirit is here today...enabling believers..and moving through the earth...

Jesus Himself is coming back..
read Matthew 24, 25...

He is coming soon...

To TRUTH 229:

Perhaps you did not read the rest of the posts in this discussion, but I believe in ONE God - the God the Hebrews, YHWH (Yahweh) and in the messiah and savior, Yeshua (Jesus).

This discussion is about the validity in the claims that the Harry Potter books make TRUE references to OCCULTISM, or if it is all just mere imagination by the author. I am taking the stance that the references made in the Harry Potter books are TRUE OCCULT themes and lessons - such as Nicholas Flamel, the Alchemist.

I understand certain Christians, in there upbringing or bias do not believe that Witches and Occultists have "supernormal" power, but the reality of it is that they DO. YOu ask what God gives them that power, I ask you HOW WILL THE ANTICHRIST HAVE THE POWER HE HAS??? Does not the word state that Signs and Wonders will follow him??? Who gave him those powers???

There are no multiple "gods" merely principalities and powers whom claim godhood; but there is only ONE TRUE GOD. YAHWEH....

Stay Blessed!

i*360°

I guess I am confused now. Are you saying there is only one God or are you saying there are multiple gods and yours is the best?

"OCCULTISM is REAL, and so are WITCHES, Ascended Masters, and other such practices of DIVINATION, ALCHEMY, etc -"

I don't deny that there are people in the world that will claim to be a witch or WICCAN, but the thought that they actually have true
witch power is completely absurd. And if they do have this power, which god do they get it from? Sounds like paganism to me. Whether
you worship more than one god or not, if you believe their are multiple gods that make you a pagan. Where did you get this proper
education you are referring to? It sounds like you went to a very warped christian school? I

I haven't even once heard you mention the teaching of Jesus? Isn't that what Christianity is truly about? Like I said, I guess I am
confused, but I am sure you will explain why.

"That is not self or independence- it is dependence on some other type of person or being."

How so? Do not even Occultists realize that TRUE Individualization is knowing that one is part of a WHOLE, whom is the author of ALL THINGS? This is the emphasis of many world religions and philosophies - to become illuminated into the UNION of CREATION. To say that this is not Know'Ledge of Self is blind...for the SELF is but a part of the MASS. One part of the body with its own function. Individualization begins (and the SELF) at the function it desires.

"The reason why school curriculums aren't Christian based is because this country was founded on freedom of religion."

How than can OCCULTISM, a recognized religioun (refer to Fraternitas Rosae Crucis), and its teachings be promoted in the HP books? If not the BIBLE, than none whatsoever. If it is TRUE freedom, why is the school afraid to learn of the BIBLE whether Christian or not. You say to study other religions, but than state that a veil should be placed over Christianity - not only is this a contradiction in your stance, but a hypocritical one at that. Your logic is weak in this portion.

"Witches don't exist, demons don't exist! Let your kids play with the Oujia board- it's fake. None of that mystical crap is real. It's all imagination."

Even a Budhhist would disagree with you here. Your lack of belief in a spiritual reality fogs the TRUTH of the matter here, and this alone will not allow you to see what is really going on. OCCULTISM is REAL, and so are WITCHES, Ascended Masters, and other such practices of DIVINATION, ALCHEMY, etc - to say that this is not true would be to negate all the sages and Magi of the past whom spent life-long missions to experience such and teach humanity of it.

"For anyone to say they actually know what a true Christian is they are severly mistaken."

Your logic fails once again - I understand fully what you are saying, but the REALITY of it, Logicially, philosophically and spiritually speaking is that there must be an absolute TRUTH. A world without absolutes borns chaos in the whole, even OCCULTISTS will recognize such. There MUST be an absolute, and it is this absolute that we must base TRUTH on. Yes, every one does claim authority on such "truths", and this is why the BIBLE states to "Study to show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of TRUTH". The Bible never states that one should just trust a CHURCH, pastor or anyone for that matter - only GOD.

"The best way to research Christanity is to research other religions"

Incorrect, the best way to study religion on a WHOLE is to study ALL of them, or at least a majority. Most religions and philosophy have various parellels. And it is in these parellels that we can begin finding that absolute TRUTH. I agree with you on that, and yes, most are too afraid to do such - but to say that Christianity has its roots and footholds on other religions is false. TRUTH is not a marketed product...TRUTH is TRUTH, and it resides within the LIGHT of GOD and his WORD. It is no respector of tradition or man-made religion - it is simply TRUTH. The "simplicity of Christ".

"It is even thought- but not proven- that Jesus himself actually studied with Buddha."

Yes, I have read about Yeshua and the Ascended Masters. It is also believed in the Occultist Movements that Yeshua us a 4th Degree Ascended Master under the subjection of Lord Matraiya. This is also believed by the Buddhists as well. But, as you stated, there is no proof beyond the Magi's visit to the child Yeshua from the East. This is pure speculations and theories due to Yeshua's revolutionary ideas and philosophy; which was thought to be Orient Origins. Again, this is pure speculation - for TRUTH is not a marketed product - it is merely TRUTH.

Of course, this is my take on things, so please, do not take offense when I speak on certain things. I take a strong stance on what I believe, and I expect others to do the same, therefore, I respect others opinions and beliefs. I ask that you do the same - I think you summarized it when you stated - "STAY OPEN" - I have yet to see you display that virtue...

P.E.A.C.E.
(Proper Education Always Corrects Errors)

i*360°

You say a lot of nothing...

You are advocating that "self" is a bad thing because you respond with 'Self is a great thing if placed in the proper place and placed under subjection to the spirit of the Living God' That is not self or independence- it is dependence on some other type of person or being.

The reason why school curriculums aren't Christian based is because this country was founded on freedom of religion. Not everyone in America's schools are Christian. Even if they were not every religion uses the same bible. Which bible would you propose they use? The one you like best? Doesn't that sound more like a dictatorship than a democracy?

The reason why so many people don't have a problem with Harry Potter and the "occult" as you put it, is because it's not real. Witches don't exist, demons don't exist! Let your kids play with the Oujia board- it's fake. None of that mystical crap is real. It's all imagination.

Can you define what a true Christian is? I don't think anyone can. Anything anyone attemps to define is merely an interpretation of the bible, or what they think God would want as a true Christian. For anyone to say they actually know what a true Christian is they are severly mistaken. There are so many Christian religions and they all propagate that they are the one true religion, their ways are the best. Who is right you? For me or anyone else to say I can define what a true Christian is, would be arrogant as well as vain.

The best way to research Christanity is to research other religions- to deny yourself that would only be admitting fear of what's out there. Buddhism, for example has many parallels to Christanity. It is even thought- but not proven- that Jesus himself actually studied with Buddha.

Stay OPEN!

Siren

Who is teaching that "Self" is a bad thing? Indeed, the "Self" is a great thing if placed in the proper place and placed under subjection to the Spirit of the Living God. This is not to say that one should not be a leader or display leadership qualities - quite the contrary! Each person and child a-alike should be ENCOURAGED to be a LEADER in all they do and success not only be an option, but a GOAL in every aspect of life.

This is not discouraged, nor should it be! The problem enters when the schools are not permitted to use BIBLES or Biblical books as part of the curriculum under the persecution of civil "iberties"; but books such as Harry Potter, which teach simple and basic concepts of Occultism are encouraged under the guise of "fantasy". Any one who TRULY studies Occultism knows the vast references to Mystery Teachings in the Harry Potter series such as - TRANSMUTATION, DIVINATION, ALCHEMY (Seer Stone, or Philosopher's stone), DESIRE & WILL coupled together etc.

If books such as these are allowed within school curriculums, than so should books of Christian value be placed in the same respect. But this is not what is being done and this is the Hypocrisy of this nation as a whole and its citizenry. All becuase those who support the Harry Potter books ridicule persons like myself becuase they are blind to the reality of what the HP books are promoting...let's be REAL here...

In regards to the Pagan symbolism found within Christianity, I will say what was previously stated earlier in this thread - DEFINE WHAT A TRUE CHRISTIAN IS, and WHAT THEY SHOULD BE and then you will see the fallacy of equating the Walk of Christ with Celtic Paganism.

Of course there are parellels in EVERY religion and philosophy - there are TRUTHS within EVERY LIE. This is the positive end. But whom will stand the test of fire, where either Gold remains or chaff is burned away. This is reality of the Christian walk, or so it should be; and it begins in the HEART and SOUL of man - not a symbol, simple utterings, or Doctrine and vain Dogma. It is from WITHIN that this PROCESS and MIRCALE of salvation begins...

Stay BLESSED!

i*360°

Christanity was once a mystery cult... Are we actually teaching our children that "self" is a bad thing? Selfishness, self fulfillment yes but Harry Potter helps other people in the stories. He is not out for self-fulfillment self-discovery of course. If our children are never given the opportunity to discover who they are and become independent adults how we expect them to become leaders and teach others about right and wrong? I understand the Christian idea is to not be an individual or a leader, but instead to follow- I don't think the President of the United States or the first woman in Congerss was taught to "follow". Harry Potter allows children to soar,reach for the stars and dream. If we rule out witches and witchcraft what about movies like Sleeping Beauty?

Is it wrong to teach children about the Druids and the Celts? It's history! A lot of Christian symbolism came from Pagan ideas.

"be as wise as serpents..and harmless as doves..."

Indeed, that is wisdom in its prime. :)

Occultists are funny people sometimes...but yes, many of them like to look at the Christian Community with a gloating eye becuase they feel they have more knowledge in these areas...and they do - but they still lack the Knowledge and Saving Power of Yeshua...laugh all they may, in the end whom will bow in LOVE and whom will bow for MERCY...

Stay Blessed!

i*360°

Indeed, it IS an individual decision! You are correct! And yes, GRACE has placed a greater responsibilty on mankind as a whole. It places salvation as a free gift, but also emphasizes that the walk we lead will be based on our own desire and will to "press in" to His Spirit.

In the subject of other writers such as CS Lewis & Tolkien, I do know that Tolkien was a Purist Occultist - adopting Christianity as a TRUTH and accepting YHWH (Jehovah) as God - [as opposed to Lucifierian Occultism which is based on the "God of Light or Illumination", which they call Jehovah "Yildaboath" or something like that. The Luciferians claim Jehovah is the sun of Sophia "Wisdom" - the Goddess - and is a deformed God believing that he is Creator God, when in fact he is a lesser God.] -

Anyhow, Tolkien believed in Jehovah, he was a devout Christian, but also adopted much Occultist philosophy due to his dealings with the Rosicrucian Fraternitas, primarily that of Gnostic & Alchemical influence. Such is the reason for the emphasis on FIRE and Gandolf's title "Keeper of the Flame" - these are blatant Gnostic and Alchemical terms, yet many do not see them due to simply not knowing what Gnosticism even is.

I personally do not condemn a person for watching these movies or reading these books. My opinion is that people should just be HONEST with themselves and KNOW what they are seeing/reading/hearing. Let's call a spade a spade basically (sorry for the cliche). If you can accept what something TRULY is and still feel ok to read it/see it...than that is between you and God. That's my take on it; but in the question of children, it is the parent's responsibilty AS WELL AS THEIR "OWNERSHIP" OF THE CONSEQUENCES in regards to books & movies that contain themes of either Mainstream or Initiated Occultism.

A good research that you may do even concerning Harry Potter would be the name NICHOLAS FLAMEL, whom is a focus in the first book and movie. Many think NICHOLAS FLAMEL and the story of him being the first to transmute base metal into Gold and gain IMMORTALITY through Alchemy is a part of the writers imagination - but IT IS NOT! The funny part is that NICHOLAS FLAMEL was an actual Alchemist whom claimed to have achieved that very task. So in essence, the first book and movie is a history lesson in Alchemy, as well as symbols of the Mystery School initiations when Harry is trying to get to the room with the Mirror of Erised ("Desire" Backwards)...Desire being a moving force within Alchemy and it's meditative formulas. Just a bit of research some here may want to do.

The danger comes in when we have brothers and sisters in Christ claiming that movies such as "Lord of the Rings" is Christian, when in fact the OCCULTISTS I know are laughing at them calling them fools. Why are the Occultists laughing at the Christian community regarding this? Well, becuase if you accept something to be parellel to your belief/philosophy, than you will most likely mentally and spiritually saturate yourself with the information given. This is reality. And as I watched both movies, especially the second movie, I began to see more Gnostic, Rosicrucian and Egyptian Mystery teachings in the storyline...and looking through some of the books, this is exactly what was intended in my opinion as well as the Occultists whom I have spoken to regarding LOTR.

All in all, it is a question of personal responsibilty. IF you are making the decision for yourself, you are solely responsible for whatever influence (or absence of influence) results. If you are making the decision for your childrem, YOU, the PARENT are responsible for whatever influence may result. That is the line that must be drawn and seen. It is a question of personal responsibility.

Of course, there are those who will argue away and either condemn the people who watch these movies, which is pure nonsense and worthless efforts of control and disallusioned self-righteousness. Or there are people who will argue with individuals like myself and dillude themselves in rantings and ravings that these movies and books have "Christian" foundations, when in fact they know very little about Occultism, especially in the Mystery teachings (ie. Rosicrucian, Freemasonry, Nuwabians, etc.) to realize that most Occultism DOES NOT deny Christian concepts or even Jesus Christ himself. They merely twist a truth and read deeper into their own imaginations to seek self-worth in pointless philosophy and spiritualism.

Stay Blessed!

i*360°

Missfaithfulheart:

In response to your questions, I would reply as such....

YOU: "What do you think is the most effective way to control it?"

For one, I educate myself on these subjects and so on. It is important for a parent to understand what surrounds their children, especially in this age of information that we live in.

Secondly, I personally will choose to educate my children of these areas when I feel that God has let me know it is time to do so. My oldest is 6 years old and he is just starting to understand concepts, so, it is hard to speak from an experience stance...I don't have much :( - I just trust GOD to show me the way in that area.

YOU: "Do you think it varies from child to child?"

I would have to say, YES, due to the fact that each personality is different. Even though "banning" works for one child does not mean it will work for the next. There is a group of children that will question EVERYTHING you say to them, and for these children it is necessary to explain and guide rather than flat-out ban...of course this is from my own opinion...

YOU: "Do you agree with banning books, videos, etc. to control what our children see?"

Yes and No...certain things are obvious to ban from children. Would you let your child watch Pornography? Most likely not, but the same goes for some of these books, movies etc. They may not be as blatant, but that is the greatest danger (subtlety).

If you go to the new Matrix site, you will see the philosophy behind the Matrix and the writers of Matrix are complete New-Age Gnostic in their teachings and also embody Luciferian teachings on the Christos and ILLUMINATION.

These subtle lies are what break our children down, until they become numb to TRUTH and DECEPTION to the point that the line that seperates the two is erased in their own minds.

Just becuase they qoute a verse and look like a "Jesus" does not mean that the concept is Christian - most OCCULTISM agrees with the person of Christ and his words....they merely belittle him to "a god", and state we can achieve the same (i.e. godhood, "mortality putting on immortality" - R. Swinburne Clymer)

Remember, Yeshua said many would come saying "I am the Christ", yet they will be false messiahs and prophets...

Stay UP and Eyes OPEN

P.E.A.C.E.

i*360°